[crowd cheering] the auto worker who won the lottery after his plant almost closed, but kept coming to work every day and bought flags for his whole town. and one of the cars he built to surprise his wife, he gives me hope. the family business in la road minnesota who didn't lay off one of their 4,000 employees when the recession hit. even when their competitor shut down dozens of plants when it meant he would give up peckers and pay because they understood the biggest asset were the community and the workers who helped build that business. they give me hope. [applause] i think about the young soir sai

met at walter reed hospital still recovering from a grenade attack that would cause him to have his leg amputated above the knee. six months ago we would watch him walk into a whitehouse dinner offering those who served in iraq. thought and 20 pounds heavier, dashing in his uniform, would big grin on his face, sturdy on his new leg. and i remember how a few months after that i would watch him on a bicycle, racing with his fellow wounded warriors on a sparkling spring day, inspiring other heroes who had just gun the hard path he had traveled. he gives me hope. [applause] he gives me hope. i don't know what party these men and women belong to. i don't know if they'll vote for me. but i know that their spirit

defines us. they remind me in the words of scripture, that ours is a future filled with hope. and if you share that faith with me, if you share that hope with me, i ask you tonight for your vote. [crowd cheering] if you will just the notion that this prepared is reserved for the few, your voice must be heard in this election. if you reject the notion that our government is forever beholden to the highest bidder, you need to stand up in this election. if you believe that new plants and factories can dot our landscape, that new energy can power our future, that new schools can provide ladders of opportunity to this nation of dreamers, if you believe in a country where everyone gets a fair shot and everyone does their fair share and everyone plays by the same rules, then i

need you to vote this november. [crowd cheering] america, i never said the journey would be easy, and i won't promise that now. yes, our path is harder, but it leads to a better place. yes, our road is longer but we travel it together. we don't turn back, we leave no one behind. we pull each other up. we draw from our victories and we learn from our mistakes, but we keep our eyes fixed on that distance horizon knowing it is with us and we are surely blessed that we citizens of the greatest nation on earth. thank you. god bless you. and god bless these united states.

[crowd cheering] ♪ >> woodruff: president obama making an appeal for the last 37 minutes to americans to re-elect them, telling the delegates in this hall in charlotte, north carolina that he has failings and that the path ahead is not easy. he said that more than once. he described what he wants to do for the next four years, and appeal time and again to americans in so many words to stick with him. the choice could not be clearer he said. >> ifill: his wife and daughters malia and sasha. if you look at the younger daughter i sasha she just shot p in the four years since we've seen them on stage all together.

>> bill clinton spoke last night and talked about the better place he wanted to take the country. mark. >> it was stay the course speech to a considerable degree. acknowledging shortcomings but at the same time holding out prospects for a brighter tomorrow. got specific on education, energy, manufacturing. and then an appeal to citizenship which is refreshing and i thought worked. >> woodruff: here comes the confetti. because they did not have this in the stadium here in charlotte, they certainly lost audience size but this change happened yesterday because of the threat of thunderstorms and no time to get balloons up there. but plenty of confetti. >> if you look at the stain you'll see some kind of fireworks behind them. the fact that they didn't have time to order tens of thousands

of balloons like you used to see at a political sun vention. >> they are up on stage right now enjoying the falling tissue paper. david. >> parts of it were harkening back to the old obama, the emphasis on you that you're going to do this, you're going to do this. and that stirs some old court. i like mark like the citizenship. i was really struck by again the continuity. you look at the policies, the vision, the way forward. things he said, he was in the senate hiring some more math and science teachers, expanding community colleges, renewable energy. to me these are bite size or medium size. policies fit for a country that's already in prosperity that's headed in the right direction. and so i guess on policy grounds, on vision grounds, i regard it as a bit disappointing frankly. a little too incremental for me. on the nature of the person, i still think he's an extraordinary speaker who has a very subtle grasp of what the

country should do, a pretty balanced view of what citizens should be. in some sense more balanced than the republicans but much much more modest in his vision for whether the country should change. >> woodruff: marg was i mark t convincing that he said you're going to see the turn around in the economy and the course this is on is the right course. you see that economy continue to get better. >> that's count intuitive by a two to one margins the americans have felt the country is headed in the wrong direction. they are here to make the case that it's better than you think it is. and things are really better off. certainly the emphasis upon the auto turn around has been the cornerstone almost. >> ifill: hold on for a moment. somewhere down on the floor with all that confetti and dancing is our own ray suarez, right. >> suarez: i'm not dancing myself. but it is an interesting

reaction that this crowd has had. there were questions as to democrats came to charlotte, just what kind of party they were going to throw here. when so many of the numbers being sampled from americans showed some disappointment in the president, some disappointment in the way things had gone. how it's being received out in the country is for analysts and commentators and fact checkers, frankly, that in this hall the activists of the democratic party appear to be united, optimistic and energized. these are the people who are going to run state campaigns, these are the people who are going to canvas districts, these are the people who are going to continue to raise money all the way to november. and they think they have a winner or at least they say they do. >> woodruff: i don't know about you but we're getting confetti right up here in the sky box. you look relatively unscathed so far. >> i have people to take care

of. >> ifill: let's go to wash washington we have michael beckebeshloss -- his plan and pt point, maybe i haven't done everything i'm supposed to do but everything i have done is because of you. is that the message he needed to take in order to take this out of this convention hall wrrve is on his side into the world where this is a very close election. michael. >> as you were saying little bit earlier all the talk about hope. and that's quite an accomplishment given how bad this economy is. but the interesting thing to me was in places that sounded like the species franklin roosevelt used to give, almost a sermon, this is a speech about political philosophy and what he's saying is if you believe in an activist government, if you don't believe turning the government essentially the society over to private interests, i'm the only one standing between you and allowing that to happen.

it's a powerful argument and we're about to see, we're talking about a little bit earlier a campaign if it follows this, are that addresses the division that runs all the way through american history which is strong government versus weaker government and private business. >> woodruff: richard, is that how you heard it, as a speech of political philosophy? >> well sure. but it's interesting. i was thinking, judy, listening to the speech is the advantage, the potential advantage the party has to go second. that was a speech and indeed i would argue that was a convention heavily influenced by what we saw and heard last week in tampa. this is an either/or speech. this is a speech all about drawing contrasts between which america in effect, which region you're embracing. somewhere tonight williams jennings brian is smiling upon us. this is also the populous barack obama. the implication was it's okay to

be disappointed. in some ways in the last four years, but you should be afraid, very afraid if the alternative prevails in november. >> david, you know i went through the speech and try to count the number of times he used the formulation of the word choice or choose and he used it 19 or 20 times. this was clearly by design. and there was a formulation at the end where he says government is not the solution to all problems neither the source of all problems. a lot of contrasts like richard is talking about. >> clearly the president's strongest mass and strongest strength of this whole convention is romney and his proposals. i think he's the highlight of the convention. the case he made against romney is very well done. that's what we will remember frankly maybe more than the speech and even the president's own remarks. trls the criticism of romney on that agenda which seemed to offend him most and which he was bold es at. i didn't see similar audacity

what he wanted to do, more about prevention, preventing those guys what they were wanting to do. >> mark were you struck when he twice refned how hard the path is going to be. when he did talk b he talked about his own failings. >> he did. excuse me judy. he was generic, general, he was the specific. he did talk about tax reform but the only higher taxes were going to be on those earning over $250,000 which has been his position. i thought, there are several points at which the crowd and the room responded i thought when he talked about climate change. that was a big number because that's science. that's the democrats -- >> it's not a hoax. >> it's not a hoax, it's real and the democrats are saying we are the party that does believe in science. >> woodruff: and he was mocked at that at the republican convention. >> that's correct. the other thing was there's a strong strain of nationalism in this. when you hear a democratic crowd

chanting usa, usa when he talked about building cars in america, when he talked about jobs in america and not being, that, that was sort of a wave of nationalism that one has not associated with democrats. >> interestingly tommy baldwin sat here and said she wanted to erect -- he on the other hand mentioned free trade agreements. still tension with the party and he's still sunnying with the free trade agreement. >> talking about being tough with china, holding china accountable. >> woodruff: there was a biden reference just before the president talking about this whole argument whether the united states is an exception, we're already an exceptional country. >> ifill: would not exceptional president. >> woodruff: michael i do want to ask you another question about this because we've been flu two weeks about the convention and parties seeing themselves clearly different from one another. are they so different when it comes down to the fundamental

vision. >> yes, they really are. take a look at tax policy which he talked about very specifically. that's a fundamental difference. and you know we were talking about this a little bit earlier in the evening too. you can look at this as saying it's a terrible thing the country is so polarized or you can say in a way it's thrilling we are about to possibly have a campaign that's brought over one of the central divisions in american history and american life. not a bad thing. >> ifill: are we? richard? >> that's the 64,000 or minute $-minute-maybe the $64 written - million question. we may have a depate over these issues. the problem of course is all of those attack ads all of that money that passes for public discourse on capitol hill and talk radio, you name it, it's all of that helps to define for

better or worse the campaign ahead. >> david you have said the last couple days, i think you and mark have mentioned this whether the president should or shouldn't embrace the simpson-bowles the deficit reduction. the president talked about it and said they have great ideas but i'm not going to go along for republican plans giving a tax cut to the wealthy. >> there were a couple things where he made my i'll say leg tingle. there was a vague reference to tax reform, some fundamental tax reform. there was that mention to the debt commission. frankly i'm a little skeptical that any big proposal like fax reform which is a big program is he going to put his heart into it if it's a merit in his speech. >> the idea that the president has a spine or the democrats need a spine or he has a spine of feel, a backbone. and even in the president's only remarks you heard him saying i will do this.

do they feel the need somehow to make that point. >> i think that's obama. that comes from obama. when i would get calls from people in the white house, the theme of every call was the president showed guts, he showed guts on this, he's got guts. and that was the theme. i always think they all -- he's saying make them sure i've got guts. that's him. that's part of his competitive spirit. he want people to know he's a tough guy. >> democrats, there's no question about democrats compassion as far as in general. there is a question about this toughness. the republicans it's bream burseed. it wasn't a question whether they're tough it's a question whether in fact they had a heart. it's sort of a complementary and the missing, and i think this was part of the assertion. but deval patrick told the democrats collectively everybody to get a backbone, to grow a backbone which suggested the absence that maybe there was a vertebra transplant. >> woodruff: did we learn

something new about him today. he's been president for the last four years david. did you see a side of him you wrchlt familiar with. >> no, that at all. i was reminded when h.w. bush ran, where the campaign came from ronald reagan and said we are the change. even though the white house according to reagan wanted to stay in the same party but he's saying we are the change, we will see the change and i really didn't see that. >> ifill: we will be back in a just a second but we want to check in with ray suarez on the floor in the middle of all the action, ray. >> suarez: gwen for years republicans have credit sized the democratic party for being anti-religion or even anti-god. they implied in the criticism of the democratic platform this week. so if the riddle is how do you make 20,000 democrats stop in their tracks, the answer to that riddle is, bring out cardinals dolan from new york to give the benediction and close down the convention. everything stopped in the hall,

and the combative new york cardinal arch bishop who has locked horns in the obama administration in the recent past over requirements that insurance plans have birth control coverage gave a very long prayer in which he was very hard on two points. the rif right to life and the constitution guarantees life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. that these rights are inalienable and also along with, maybe that's a bad word in the benediction but along next to jesus you might say on the importance of religious liberty. because the catholic hierarchy has been very critical of the obama's administration attempts the to prescribe what's in insurance plans saying it does interfere with religious liberty. you never heard controversy about who is going to say the benediction at a convention before and the combative cardinal developpen go doinl mad

and everybody is going -- points and everybody is going home. >> woodruff: we didn't here -- >> ifill: is that right the debate about closing out the convention. >> cardinal dolan offered to address the convention and was spurned initially. there was an inta intramural bae when the whitehouse and campaign and after he gave the closing again diction in tampa. i said cooler and wiser heads prevail, we can't not invite him and invite him they d the most prominent catholic church man in america certainly. despite differences, i think that was necessary and the crowd was remarkably respectful. there was concern on the part of the democrats that there would be some people who would turn their back or say something else. and that did not happen. >> ifill: final thoughts of the week, david. >> successful convention. the 10:00 hour, i would say romney, obama that was sort of a

tie but the clinton speech was excellent. the michelle obama was excellent. i think if you take the two conventions, you look at a party, you have doubts about the republicans now. and the republican convention looks worse in retrospect because i'd say that because they did not champion and make a case for all the policies that have been seriously attacked here. given a week i would give a slight advantage to the democrats. >> mark. >> the democrats won desitessively the first two nights and the third night as well. disaifd's right the republicans are going to pay a price for a content-free convention. basically a content-free. this was not content-free. >> ifill: back to washington richard norton smith, without it falling on how, how did it look. >> a confetti free assessment. i would agree with david. i don't think we saw anything

new or revealing about the president tonight but what we did see revealed tonight was the democratic strategy. up until now the assumption has been that this is an election, a referendum upon the performance of the incumbent president. what this convention and i think tonight in particular was all about was to suggest that it is, at least as much a referendum on the republican alternative. >> michael. >> i think that's right. and the other aspect of this was you know, obama covered so many different things that a president does tonight, it was almost there are times almost seemed like a state of the union. that was intentional because he was saying in fact he did say in his speech i'm the president. he's saying by implication split mitt i -- mitt romney is not ofn to this. this is like russia is our biggest enemy. that's effective. >> ifill: those of you in washington, david brooks my wingman here and charlotte and

mark shields. >> woodruff: both of our wings here. >> ifill: thank you. >> woodruff: guys it's been great having you with us. we have a little of our own confetti. >> get that biodegradable. >> we are going to leave it at that but we want to remind you what you can find on-line about the convention. here's hare vaw. >> sreenivasan: vawps we broadcasted channels with uninterrupted speeches behind the scenes view from our rowing cam, views from the work space and arenas and even a channel completely translated into spanish. judy, gwen, mark, david, jeff, ray and christina join viewers every day from our flash studio in the news room. on-line we covered the events from every angle, from the influential after party scenes to protests rocking the streets around the convention.

to political cartoonists and their take. two professional photographers roamed the events and helped us create an archive of more than 500 images. they're all free for public use. we explored the nation through our digital map center both on air and on-line. it's home to american 800 layers of demographic and political data. to get a little more personal we launched our politics quiz in partnership with pew research center a fascinating tool that may teach you something new about your own political views. throughout the season on listen to me campaign has showcased voices from hundreds of voters around the country on their most important issues. and thanks to more than 500 volunteers from the pbs newshour community, many of those opinions have been translated into multiple languages. on behalf of pbs stations from around the country we interviewed delegates from battle ground states, in our studio and on the convention floor. and if you you missed anything, don't worry, you can find every major speech, every major moment and much more at our website.

newshour dot pbs.org. >> with that we end our coverage this final thursday night. i'm judy woodruff kyl i'l. >> ifill: and i'm gwen ifill. thank you for being with us tonight.

and we had lots of conversations and the president publicly talked about the need for democrats to understand that we had to go with some difficult decisions. >> charlie:boehner speaker of the house same question i was prepared to make the deals on the revenue side but the president came back to me and said, i need more revenue and that's what in the end ruined the deal. >> what happened really in my opinion what really ruined the

deal if you remember we had been waiting and waiting for the gang of 6 to come out with a plan. they came out 30 some republican senators said they would sign on board to what trillion 200 bill i don't know dollars of ref nie. we were merely trying to get out of speaker boehner 800 bill i don't know obviously over 10 years. we went back to him not as a condition but said, look, if we are going to get the votes. >> charlie:right. >> democratic vote in the senate, we must -- and he had never and his leadership team had never gone through any count on the man we were working on as to what votes they had. it was pretty simple for me to say, look, if we were all going to have a hard time getting votes you would have a hard time with 800 bill i don't know. when senate republicans have signed on board to 400 bill i don't know more than we were

agreeing to say how were -- we have to take a look at whrrnts this deal we have been talking about private can get the votes. this was all about trying to get the votes and it was our opinion at that time that we ought to look at trying to get a little more revenue to get more votes but it was not either or. >> charlie:that's the first i heard that explanation. i don't know if you talked about that before or not. that's the first time i heard that. you're basically say yes indeed you did say we needed revenue but it's because we have a commitment in the senate from republicans in the senate that they need this in order to get their votes. >> obviously democrats would have said, wait a minute how bad of negotiators are you people? you have republicans saying they would sign on board 1.2-trillion and you settle for 800-billion. what is wrong with you people. it was about an acknowledgement this was making it more difficult for us to get

democratic votes if you would republicans willing to be courage us and stand up saying they were for 1.2 trillionlion in revenue. that sent us in a difficult swaying. the speaker had a sense his caucus was grg to have a hard time taking 800 billlion of revenue. if fell through. >> charlie:how will that be different if the president is he re-elected and house is controlled by republicans? >> we are facing a bob reuben said we are on the titanic looking at the iceberg. we haven't hit it yet but it's right there. in january of this coming year, you will have all tax cuts expire and you will have a see questionings strayings, continuation -- you have defense and you have more domestic cuts. we cut almost a trillion dollars a year ago on the table is

1.2-trillion plus the tax cuts in '01 expiring. >> charlie:we know that and people have been talking about that. what makes you think the president will convince the republicans if he's elect gend titanic is facing the iceberg? >> first feel all they had have to acknowledge this debate has gone on american people have spoken. there will be a point people really do have to govern. i do not believe that the leadership and the republican members of the congress are irresponsible. maybe it's everybody is going to look down in the abis and say you know what we may want to continue our tbains but this has gotten much more serious. and if by chance europe doesn't get their straightened out, then you're talking about a rather difficult situation in early '13: so i'm an optimist i do

meef the system can work. if it can't work when you're looking at the iceberg then we have the discussions will shift to a fundamental discussion of does our system function as it was set up 300 years ago in a way that's responsible to the american people. >> charlie:how do you think barack obama will be different in the second term if he wins? >> my sense is a re-election in many ways, not liberates but gives a president the opportunity to really deal long-term because they're not in the political gain as early. >> charlie:if in fact that's true, you must know the head and mind of this guy. where do you think he would like to take the kun trillion in a big way. in terms of whether it's relationshipness the middle east or economic model for the future? >> my sense is that strength in

the economic model and making it fair. nothing happens if we don't deal with the long-term fiscal problems. you are not going to get economic growth that's sustainable if we don't solve the long-term fiscal problem. it's not as though we can kick the can and statement hope we get economic growth. it will not happen if we don't -- i think he understands. in order to do all the other things he may want to do in energy and immigration and all these other things and to see some better opportunities for people, educational opportunities, it's not going to happen if we don't address the long-term fiscal problems. not only because the cliff is right in front of us but the hole is just too big to avoid. we cannot get around this thing. >> charlie:had you came, there were many, many people i remember all the conversations i had and interviews i did said this is such a good choice. bill daily knows america,

corporate community, democratic party and he will help with the problem that the president has with the business community. did you do that? >> i did a fantastic job on that. >> charlie:what's your evidence? that was a joke. >> the truth of the matter isfis people are republicans so let's get that on the table and i think there has been a strong misunderstanding of the president's relationship with the business community. he did not come from the business community, obviously. when ul run against as he's doing right now governor romney who has a long business careeren affinity by him because he's one of them understandable. 4 years ago comeument organizers associated with barack obama because that was his career many years ago. from the very beginning because of the depths of the problems in

our economy the action president took gm bailout, a lot of people in business felt it was a mistake. i think he has been proven right krmpleght some say it may be crucial in states that might give him the presidency. >> i think it was also crucial in helping as president clinton said to put the foundation underneath the collapse going on. not just politically. i don't think in january of '09 as this things was melting down, the president and his advisors no matter how political they may be, gee, in '12, ohio, michigan. >> charlie:they were doing what they thought was best for the country. >> exactly. ill think it's been proven to be the right decision. not one favorable among the business community at the time to be frank with you. i saw that. there was a sense that this is interference that shouldn't take place.

but if you're the captain of the team you will do whatever it takes within reason to save that team and that's how president saw it. >> charlie:would the business community say the president was right? >> i think a lot will still say it's wrong. >> charlie:mitt romney is one of them. >> they thought the normal bankruptcy process should have taken place. that could be two or three years. look at the airlines. >> charlie:bigger idea this isen treution of government having less to do with the emergency in the economy and unemployment. >> but when you're not the captain of the team, you can have those sort of observations. when on the field and you're the captain you have to make a split decisions. i think he made the right decision. mill won people jobs and related jobs saved think so. >> charlie:beyond the history where you came up whether tweas law, community organizer or community environment whether it

has to do with wall street or run ago company, do you think they fundamentally didn't get each other? they have to talk to each other because you brought them together. >> i think there were -- one of the things, also, that the president's rise, in a short period there are' weren't he those long relationship tion. president clinton was governor for many years, around for many yeergs. if he have didn't run for president he was around the president, traveled the world. all that was celebrated in '08 about the short period tbhi president obamas with a involved in politics and government. impact of that was thought could have on the american people and sort of celebrating that as the outsider who suddenly was in the biggest game one would e could imagine that in many ways because there weren't those long

relationships with ep many of those people, they had a certain sinicism and skepticism about him that i think. >> charlie:existed. >> exist today and were magnified during the crisis of '09 and '10 and then at least in the financial service sector when you went to do dot frank then it made it worse in that sector. as they were going thank you fundamental transformation tion in many of those businesses if not businesses becoming exstingt in the financial. >> charlie:here comes the question you've bean asked more than once: so you've known bill clinton for a while barack owe bam march for a while euch' been work, up close with both of them. how are they different? >> first you start with the personalities. president obama is a someone who as president clinton described last night, there's a little

less drama around him. >> charlie:passion on the middle. >> exactly. that's real. it is real. and people come to this business of politics and governing from different histories and bill clinton's was somebody who vesm was a street retail politician who over many years one ngs les. >> charlie:ap progressive conservative -- >> progressive in a conservative state. i understand the moderation. you couldn't be too progressive and get re-elected. he was forced to be in the middle many ways. president obama and i really believe this when i came into office after the republicans took control of the house that there was a real opportunity there to do -- i saw with clinton and gingrich, nafta, host of things with president clinton and gingrich.

i thought this was an opportunity because of president obama's style and philosophy that he and boehner could do a deal. >> charlie:the great grand bargain they both wanted. >> one of my miscalculations was the depth of the difficulty of the leadership of the house republicans to convince their caucus as to where i think they thought they needed to go and that was to a big deal. >> charlie:i'm not convinced the tea party members. >> i think it was -- that wing of that party of that caucus of which the leadership of the house didn't create -- again gingrich created the revolution, elected the members, drew up the platform and drove the platform. tea party takeover basically of the republican house was not crafted. >> charlie:in washington. >> by bain he were or leadership of the house. they kind of rode the wave.

so when those people came to washington, they looked at the leadership of their own group as ok we'll talk to them like anybody else. >> charlie:exactly. it's not about me be here because of may relationship with the constituents at home. >> so the thought the speaker could deliver that maybe i would say maybe on my part was a miscalculation. >> charlie:thank you. back in a moment. stay with us. >> charlie:we continue with mark hal pir in, maggie haberman of politico. i'm pleased to have them here. i cannot think of anybody i would rather talk to you trying to underis a stand the dynamics of the political process coming out of the democratic convention. we taped this before the president speaks but we assume he's requesting to try to late out as much as he can the future. that's his role on thursday night. >> opening they saw coming out

of tampa, roll out at some point before the general election. they made it clear the president was going to be a bit more specific what he would do in the second term. big are vulnerability for his re-election as his first 4 years people want a sense of what he would do differently. if he can convince a second term in working with republicans, in addressing the economy would have more promise than he's displayed 0 far, he has a good chance ever winning. expect that not only be the message here but coming out of one of the weakest things about governor romney's -- no message out of. no single message remember what we said in tampa we're going to drill it in your head. i think the the obama campaign will build off the president's thursday speech for the next few days on making it more concrete what would a second term be like. >> i thought the message reit

raying of that idea that those people who voted for barack obama four years ago may not have a reason to vote for him and it's ok and we have all the confidence to make that selection one you will be proud of. >> you did a better job of distilling it than they did. he spent a part of his time after leaving tampa wandering around louisiana. >> charlie:and building on a theam he tried to articulate. >> it's not just that. everything i agree with but this is one area where romney leads the president. areas where he they think he's better. economic management piece. you have done a great kri particular on barack obamas management. what are you going to do? they didn't say anything tbhat for three straight nights. bill clinton wednesday night keyed in to why that was or at least tried to make the political argument what that

was. they can't say what they would do. if they say what they would do and believe, they walk right in our trap which is all they believe is stale poll 6. >> charlie:bill clinton said. >> obama campaign believed they were boxed in. that's the argument they have been making. all these guys believe in taking back the stale poll 6 of the past. republicans do want to cut taxes on the rism, they do want to cut spending on middle chas and worse off. there eal in a prime to be slayed by not just those negative critiques but the president offering his own positive agenda. for a lot of independent and undecided who thick the economy is the most important thing, they're not dumb. they want to be talked to like adults, he this they want to to see policies. a lot of them don't want to litigate the past. ok, how are you going to get us

out of this mess. they have a deep appreciation this is not a norm afl cyclical recession. they're pessimistic and aipg shut something they want to hear from both of thieves candidates. >> charlie:what are five take aways or 7 or 4 that you have of clinton last night. i had people say to me, it's as god of speech as i've ever seen him give. >> certainly the best speech i have seen him give. i they he did it was serm too long. it was a mistake for the obama campaign to have him go last. the assumption people will still tune in. people went to sleep tor because it went on 448 minutes and the closing was not really strong. i think he accomplished a ton in that speech. he did the current president a world of good. >> charlie:here is the question, why hasn't the

president been able to do that himself? >> laugh) that's the great question. this president is not he spref good colleague wrote a piece about thvment he doesn't really communicate. c he doesn't communicate? >> he is tht good at selling himself. he has said this himself. effectively sell his own agenda. atbree with what john said about what he need to do tonight. if you're going to make the case mitt romney and republicans are not putting forward anything that's an alternative then you do need to offer something and how specific you get is the question. but how he sells it also is the question. the first lady's speesm was very good political without being overly political almost all biographical, policy woven in. bar being obama the man. i don't think they want to hear the story again. they want to hear about the future. >> charlie:you were going to say about why he had not said

this before. >> first of all, it's a very high standard to judge anybody against bill clinton at a particular kind of thing. >> charlie:they ought to learn from bill clinton. >> they do. >> charlie:not saying anything you haven't said before. >> we're talking about a speech. getting up and doing public communication. bill clinton no one as political walk and mythical strategist and mix in the oracle gift. barack obamas or a tor. bill clinton is talker and persuader. you think about the ways in which he has a mastery of policy, he marshalls date at that and evidence and then marries that up to incredibly plit wal strategy. it doesn't demean barack obama those are not his skill set. president clinton is not is that

inspiring. think back to his -- >> charlie:best i heard brak church in memphis. >> very rare he would have peoplen their feet and in tears in the way barack obama has done over his career. it's an incredible skill he has. i think obama is never going to be that. >> charlie:this convention and we assume the president will perform well. everybody is teed tup and capable as we have seen in the other conventions. where does that lead the campaign? does this put them on a bump ra ject trito put this thing away? >> there's not much give right now in the elector at. i think it's possible that the president could get a 3 or 4 points out of this at least temporary. 3 or 4. convention tend not to linger but that would be a pretty big. >> charlie:until the debate. >> until the debate. ability of us to sit in a cop

vengs city, listen to the speeches, jump to the con clowg regular voters -- limited. president moves up to 50% after this in the national polls that would be significant. >> charlie:what's magical go 50%? >> the general view amongst some people in politics and certainly the romney campaign if you're undecided you're probably not going to be in the end for the president. an incumbent below if% on the election day often will lose. what mitigates against that which manies he could win even if he's at 48, 3 things. i think it's still an open question whether governor romney alternative -- >> charlie:you agree on. open question whether he will be seen as an alternative. >> yes. >> two i still believe the obama ground game will be superior.

that that could be worth an additional 1, 2 or 3 points in some places and finally the electoral college, barack obama is going to do very poorly in a lot of red states by recent standards in a mayor juror party candidate. what is true unless there's a disaster tonight, governor romney electoral college position sno better. >> charlie:no easy path for him. >> and he still has very few paths without having put florida away without having put in play pennsylvania, michigan having a tough time in ohio. there's just not a clear way for him to get 270 electoral votes. that having been said he's probably exwetting close to 250, if things go well and spend more money. that's a close race if the loser is starting around 250 but he's

not there. that means obama poll standing kerntly is not as bad as a different incumbent in a different race. >> the one thing i would say to that the romney theory, which is the challenger in -- undecide vote, 5% of undecided voters rule in politics lived wft president for 3 1/2 years clesser to 4 years. if they're not for him by now all they're looking for is an acceptable alternative. the he only slight twist is you have such interesting dynamics with the two and has people think of them which is to say governor romney holds a pretty wide lead the question of economic management and that is the primary issue in america right now, the economy people care a lot about that. >> charlie:right. >> on the other hand he holds a wide deficit, likability, shares your values, trustworthy,

honest. president has a wide lead there. what exactly the intermay of those forces within a tbifn undecided voter are. what are they looking for in the debate? an acceptable alternative or two things playing in their minds? he sounds like he knows more because he avenues business guy, i don't trust him he he seems alien to me. they have such stark differences work on micro level. it's not clear the dynamic romney gives 3 great debate performs a not clear the undecide you had will tip to him. i don't know that will happen. some mesa he's acceptable but in the end not quite acceptable enough. >> i agree with everything john. one of the things that's been remarkable to me in the past week, we saw mitt romney not come pain on labor day. i don't want to overstress the

appearance factor here. i can't remember the last time that happened mitt romney doesn't embrace the ceremonial aspects of this retail. forfeited fund raising as oppose today campaigning and presenting himself. swing states very, very controlled. i do think this matter. i don't think it can be 1 -- presenting the case right now signature on well over $150 million they're planning on use forking fall tiegz buy. there's so many ads on so many races and so many different entities super pacs campaigns it has to be a clear message to break through. the other message they focused on is this welfare message about the gutting of welfare by president owe become ma. bill clinton did a lot to rebut that. that was a significant element of his speech.

in 004 when he come pained for john kerry. campaign in massachusetts he had his heart issue, troubles had begun healthwise. he trade there weapt a carryover effect. when it's about his open policies it will have an effect. >> charlie:do you think we will see a lot of bill clinton on this campaign. >> i do. >> charlie:where is it going to go? we don't know. >> global initial tivment i suspect he will go to a lot of battle ground states and do a version, maybe even a longer version of the speech he did last night and that will get a ton of coverage. what's powerful it speaks directly to the voters in play. it speaks to married women, speaks to subject suburban, whir men. it gives people a sense of if you believe in bill clinton's val daig, this is the right way to go. that will be powerful in the

retail left. let me say one thing about romney. one does not get the sense his attitude unshackle me, let me go to ohio, put me on the ground i will win these people over. it's not a mayor or governor's race. one does not have sense his schedule his attitude is i can win this if people get to know me. >> charlie:what do we look for now between now and debate. >> mitt romney to hit the yobs numbers real hard. yobs report coming out tomorrow. they're prespin thg is going to be what counters the convention week. mitt romney going on sawnd hoe this weekend to drive that message. >> charlie:whatever those numbers are big surprise continuation of what we've seen. >> speak he go of continuation of what we've seen, that's what we're going to see. i think we will see some more policy details get discussed but

nothing dramatic. president obama's campaign is going to build off whatever his speech is tonight and clinton speech. i don't think you're going to see any surprises with beyond a glut of advertising. everything is static. there could be bounce out of had this convention but i don't expect it will chaipg the fundamentals of race. it is where it is. >> charlie:thank you. thank you for joining us. see you tomorrow night